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Author
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Topic: SuicideGirls.com article in Shitty Pages
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vendetta77
Punk Posts: 1161
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 11-29-2002 12:17 PM
  
http://citypages.com/databank/23/1147/article10895.asp Just wondering how other tcpunk ladies feel about this...
I find it rather sad and insulting.
"I just LOOOOVE modest mouse. Oh, and of course my clear vinyl collection-- if that doesn't get you hot and bothered, check out my tits!"
"Some indie rockers have lined up behind Suicide Girls as a feminist alternative to traditional pornography."
Feminist alternative to traditional pornography?!? This has to be the most spurious statement I've heard in years. [This message has been edited by vendetta77 (edited 11-29-2002).] IP: Logged |
Evil Angel
Punk Posts: 1700
Registered: Jul 2002
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posted 11-29-2002 12:27 PM
I agree with you, Vendetta77. Pretty low. IP: Logged |
DEA
Punk Posts: 1435
Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 11-29-2002 12:32 PM
Puh-lease! Just because you've got tattoos and a pierced lip doesn't make what you're doing any different from what Jenna Jameson is doing. I have no problem with pornography...in fact, I own a bit myself. I just have a problem with anyone, male or female, trying to say this is somehow different, or even BETTER, from the rest of the stuff on the net. Just because there is suddenly a demand for girls in crotchless bondage pants, and people willing to supply that market, doesn't mean you're some pioneer that should be championed by alterna-culture. A new coat of paint doesn't change your kitchen table into a practice amp.IP: Logged |
trainwreck
Punk Posts: 834
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 11-29-2002 12:43 PM
i for one support porn in punk but the little stuff Ive seen is still nasty IP: Logged |
vendetta77
Punk Posts: 1161
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 11-29-2002 12:44 PM
yeah, it's bothersome to me on so many levels. I don't consider myself a prude or even anti-porn, but this gets my goat.
I was attracted to punk rock partly because so many people involved in it were working to combat sexism, not to mention classism, racism, homophobia, etc.
Apparently, nothing is sacred or protected from exploitation.
I like how Jessica Hopper says these women are being "sexually appreciated." My ass. I thought she, of all people, would understand the difference between objective consumption and appreciation. What a crock.[This message has been edited by vendetta77 (edited 11-29-2002).] IP: Logged |
Ollie Stench
Admin Posts: 2392
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted 11-29-2002 01:49 PM
quote:
Originally posted by vendetta77:
"sexually appreciated" My ass.
You do have a nice ass, why be offended if people are sexually appreciating it?  I checked out the free part of Suicide Girls last year, and yeah, from what I saw it was the same cheezy porno bullshit with bad tattoos and lip rings. A few years ago Patti Rhodes gave me a porno flick called "Shane's World", made by some woman. I thought that it might be slightly better than the standard schlock that is pumped out of the Valley, but it was just as bad. Fake boobs, injected lips (lips on the face, ya prevert!) with too much outlining, guys slapping ass and saying the typical shit like "Oh baby, you know you want it up the ass, tell me you want it up the ass, bitch". Commercial porn is like commercial music and commercial movies, made to appeal to the lowest common denominator. (but I do think that the chick they have the pic of in teh CP article is hot ) [This message has been edited by Ollie Stench (edited 11-29-2002).] IP: Logged |
vendetta77
Punk Posts: 1161
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 11-29-2002 03:34 PM
Glad to know my ass is appreciated, ollie.Anyway, I was thinking about the title of this site, "Suicide Girls."
WTF?!?
Are they so bored/jaded/disaffected that they're on the verge of suicide? Is it drawn from the belief that women are emotionally unstable and therefore dangerous to themselves?
I'm not too surprised that the founders of the site are 22-year-old psuedo-punks. They actually think they're "empowering" women? I support a girl's decision to do whatever she wishes, but I don't think most of these SG models understand the repercussions.
I'm pretty sure a guy rubbing one off to these images really doesn't give a fuck about what books she likes to read. I can't wait til jess-o gets ahold of this one. IP: Logged |
DEA
Punk Posts: 1435
Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 11-29-2002 03:48 PM
I especially liked that they host SG/member parties all over the country...and that they're worried that photos from said parties with girls giving members lap dances will give other members the wrong impression. What impression did you expect to give to your "fanbase"? You're posting naked pictures of yourself in public spaces on the internet and then offering to meet "the consumer" down at the local pub!!! I'd like to be able to call them naive, but I'm afraid they're just dirt fuckin' dumb.IP: Logged |
vendetta77
Punk Posts: 1161
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 11-29-2002 04:06 PM
Exactly, DEA.
And I wish the following would have been expounded upon more in the article."A more essential criticism, however, remains: Does the fact that the women control their photo shoots make any difference to the fundamentally problematic relationship between viewer and viewed that lies at the heart of all pornography?" IP: Logged |
HooliganKat
Punk Posts: 1176
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 11-29-2002 04:10 PM
As most well know, I'm no stranger to sexual entertainment. Granted most of it has been during drunken debauchery, none the less, I've been exposed to it and I'll be honest enjoy some of it.However, I agree, these girls are stupid and this screams of danger. All it would take is one sick fuck who sees them as nothing but a sexual object to do God knows what to one of them. It brings pornography (as low as it is already) to a whole new low. IP: Logged |
Kubler
Punk Posts: 716
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted 11-29-2002 07:01 PM
quote:
Originally posted by vendetta77:
I like how Jessica Hopper says these women are being "sexually appreciated." My ass. I thought she, of all people, would understand the difference between objective consumption and appreciation. What a crock.[This message has been edited by vendetta77 (edited 11-29-2002).]
i've spent years doing nothing but waiting for jessica to open her mouth and then saying exactly the opposite. [This message has been edited by Kubler (edited 11-30-2002).] IP: Logged |
2fisted
Punk Posts: 1816
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 11-29-2002 07:19 PM
imho:
I don't have any big beefs w/ the site, I think alot of the "doing it our way" stuff is a
gimmick. Its just a slightly different style of porn than the usual amateur stuff. It comes
across as a Hello kitty/don't touch me! feel. Which will SELL GREAT, but also attract
very young girls that may not be thinking about what there doing if they get involved
with it. & for porn that, of course SELLS GREAT! But then again, I wouldn't be suprised if many of the SG girls are already strippers-so
what's the diff. Other than there pics will be online forever & all of them free for anyone
within a year. (hackers)
On the UP side i like to see porn empires feeling the pinch, a shake up the industry is ok
w/ me. But, in the end: The majority of fans of "SG" are the same crowd that likes
"Seventeen"
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The Artful Dodger
Punk Posts: 890
Registered: May 2002
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posted 11-29-2002 07:47 PM
I dunno'.. I try and not let what other people do bother me too much--it's bad for the blood pressure.
Is it a positive thing? I doubt it. I think they can try to convince themselves that it is, but I think in the big picture, it's just porn. Same product, different wrapper.IP: Logged |
Hellside
Punk Posts: 71
Registered: Nov 2002
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posted 11-29-2002 08:28 PM
Hey Ollie, on a side note, do you know how to get a hold of the lovely Ms Patti Rhodes? I haven't seen her a good couple of years and lost touch with her after I moved around a bunch. If you do, tell her Corrie from Duluth says hi and wants to get back in touch.------------------
It's All Out Naked Violence. IP: Logged |
Fry
Punk Posts: 516
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 11-29-2002 11:48 PM
Where do I sign up to be a Suicide Boy?I'm punk AND hot. IP: Logged |
Kubler
Punk Posts: 716
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted 11-30-2002 12:24 AM
the photography is really shitty. i suppose that , to me, is more offensive than anything else.IP: Logged |
Ollie Stench
Admin Posts: 2392
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted 11-30-2002 01:57 AM
quote:
Originally posted by vendetta77:
Anyway, I was thinking about the title of this site, "Suicide Girls."
I believe the site was originally gonna be geared more towards the Goth crowd. IP: Logged |
Finn McCool
Punk Posts: 517
Registered: Jul 2002
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posted 11-30-2002 02:04 AM
Not surprisingly, the first item in a Google search for "goth porn" is...
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=%22goth+porn%22&btnI=I%27m+Feeling+Lucky IP: Logged |
Kubler
Punk Posts: 716
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted 11-30-2002 12:15 PM
isn't there also supercult.comi had no idea there was such a market for this type of shit. IP: Logged |
Satan's Little Helper
Punk Posts: 1523
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 11-30-2002 12:21 PM
Does anyone have a user name and a password for this site they'd like to share?IP: Logged |
autopsygrrrl
Punk Posts: 1073
Registered: May 2001
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posted 12-01-2002 12:43 PM
All of you girls, v77, DEA, HKat...you're just jealous.IP: Logged |
naked maygun
Punk Posts: 441
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted 12-02-2002 11:33 AM
hmmm, i don't know about this...the article describes how this site aims to show people non-traditional versions of beauty, i.e. dreads, piercings, tattoos, and the like. while that makes sense it seems like yet another attempt to make a faction of society acceptable to the mainstream.i'm not so sure i want all of america looking at me with this newfound appreciation or lust. i don't have dreads to be sexy, pervert. i have 'em because i never wash my hair. put that on your porn site. IP: Logged |
vendetta77
Punk Posts: 1161
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 12-03-2002 12:44 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Kubler:
i've spent years doing nothing but waiting for jessica to open her mouth and then saying exactly the opposite.
Wow. Same here. I've had problems with her explanations/bantering since the 'Hit it or Quit it' days, and her outting the riot grrrl scene that she knew nothing about. Hey, whatever's hip/cool/trendy/hot, Jessica's down. These days, she's called upon to comment on every punk-related women's issue, as if she's thee voice of our generation. And Kubler, I think that photographer is in Minus the Bear. It's not a matter of jealousy, AG.
It makes me angry because punk women have fought long and hard (pardon the terminology ) to be taken seriously as strong, capable, intelligent beings. It's just unsettling to me that these "punk" girls are sending the message that objectification is OKAY, even in the punk community. IP: Logged |
Clyde
Punk Posts: 1277
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 12-03-2002 11:25 PM
I'd be very interested to hear the solution. Would it be better if it were free? What is a healthy/empowering alternative? What if you drape a sheet in all the right places? At least something's left to the imagination. But I'll bet some would still consider that derogatory.
I don't dig traditional "porn". By and large, it's not sexy stuff. I don't groove on Maxim, FHM, Penthouse or Playboy that cater to the population that want their women airbrushed & tasteless.
However, I love the unadulterated female form (to a point) and I think Suicide Girls fills a void. Could it be done better? Sure. Chances are it'll evolve with age. I'd bet a lot of it is pure exploration on their part; albeit very public exploration.
I have to admit, the subject is pretty damn confusing. On one hand, there's the "My Body, My Choice" thread that's all about doing what you damn well please with your person. On the other, there's this about the objectification of the female form, which makes it sound a whole lot like "I don't really like the choices you're making with your body" ala "Your Body, My Choice."IP: Logged |
autopsygrrrl
Punk Posts: 1073
Registered: May 2001
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posted 12-04-2002 08:54 AM
quote:
Originally posted by vendetta77:
It's not a matter of jealousy, AG.
I know! I know! Winky face, winky face!
IP: Logged |
vendetta77
Punk Posts: 1161
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 12-04-2002 09:22 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Clyde:
I have to admit, the subject is pretty damn confusing. On one hand, there's the "My Body, My Choice" thread that's all about doing what you damn well please with your person. On the other, there's this about the objectification of the female form, which makes it sound a whole lot like "I don't really like the choices you're making with your body" ala "Your Body, My Choice."
This phrase gets plenty of quote time on the board, but Clyde, you're talking apples and oranges. I can't believe I even have to point this out. Choosing to have an abortion is a private, personal experience, not a public display that affects other women. Sexual exploitation and exhibition is vastly different from choosing to have a medical procedure that terminates a pregnancy.
IP: Logged |
naked maygun
Punk Posts: 441
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted 12-04-2002 10:22 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Clyde:
I have to admit, the subject is pretty damn confusing. On one hand, there's the "My Body, My Choice" thread that's all about doing what you damn well please with your person. On the other, there's this about the objectification of the female form, which makes it sound a whole lot like "I don't really like the choices you're making with your body" ala "Your Body, My Choice."
i think that what was initially brought up in this discussion was that pornography is often times seen as an objectification of women. i personally dont have a problem with porn-i think it creates problems, and i dont necessarily like all of it, but i myself am not offended by a lot of it either. i could take it or leave it. i think the main points that v77 was bringing up are that combining porn and punk makes it seem alright to treat punk women as objects, when they have made so many efforts to be treated as equals. in addition, my dislike for this is simple-i dont want jock assholes to all of a sudden think that "punk" is some new sexy fetish. im not expecting heads to turn when i walk down the street , but i dont want people to look at me or my friends and immediately equate the belt im wearing or my tattos with something related to sex. i think what it comes down to is "i dont really like how the choices you are making with your body make other people view me and my beliefs in a different, sexual light, when it's none of their business" [This message has been edited by naked maygun (edited 12-04-2002).] IP: Logged |
monty carlos
Punk Posts: 1138
Registered: May 2002
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posted 12-04-2002 10:38 AM
quote:
by V77:
And Kubler, I think that photographer is in Minus the Bear.
And why weren't they selling this as merch, too? They have practically everyting for sale except maybe a Minus the Bear Day Planner and porn. I feel cheated. Back to serious discussion. Hmmmmmmmmm, Ladies! IP: Logged |
vendetta77
Punk Posts: 1161
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 12-04-2002 10:42 AM
ahhh! Miss Maygun is much more eloquent than I. She said what I've been trying to say from the get-go. IP: Logged |
lutefisk
Punk Posts: 1388
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 12-04-2002 11:00 AM
quote:
Originally posted by naked maygun:
...i dont want jock assholes to all of a sudden think that "punk" is some new sexy fetish
One could argue that Avril Levigne or whatever the hell her name is, and any of the commerical singing queen sensations that have discovered "punk" as fashion are essentially doing just that. It's just not in a porn context. IP: Logged |
naked maygun
Punk Posts: 441
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted 12-04-2002 11:06 AM
quote:
Originally posted by lutefisk:
One could argue that Avril Levigne or whatever the hell her name is, and any of the commerical singing queen sensations that have discovered "punk" as fashion are essentially doing just that. It's just not in a porn context.
that's true. they are using it in a sexual context though, regardless of if it's porn. they are equating "punk" with "stupid cute girl", which is way off base. i'm not cute or stupid IP: Logged |
Ollie Stench
Admin Posts: 2392
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted 12-04-2002 11:55 AM
Face it, Punk Rock(tm) is mainstream now. Whether you like it or not Green Day opened the door for Good Charlote and Sum 41. Yeah, WE all know those bands are corporate whores, but Freddie The Frat Boy thinks it's the real deal and thinks that by wearing a Rancid shirt and getting his lip pierced he's a real Punker. So do these "punk rock" chicks posing for naughty pictures. They ain't the real deal, but just as Freddie the Frat Boy thinks Blink 182 is "punk" they also think that Mary here "punk".
[IMG][/IMG] We've been bastardized and co-opted. All we can do is wait for the trend to die out and re-build all the damage that was wrought.
[This message has been edited by Ollie Stench (edited 12-04-2002).] IP: Logged |
povertyrich
Punk Posts: 1226
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 12-04-2002 12:01 PM
...and in the meantime, it's a hell of a lot better to look at naked girls with colored hair and tattoos than with pumped up tits and the same goddamned dyed-blonde haircut every porno-chick has had since 1989. IP: Logged |
monty carlos
Punk Posts: 1138
Registered: May 2002
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posted 12-04-2002 12:17 PM
We're missing some ribald photography here Ollie...
IP: Logged |
monty carlos
Punk Posts: 1138
Registered: May 2002
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posted 12-04-2002 12:39 PM
The day a white cap hits on any of you ladies, he's in for one big surprise.IP: Logged |
autopsygrrrl
Punk Posts: 1073
Registered: May 2001
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posted 12-05-2002 11:32 AM
I just think its weird that the City Pages, long critized for it's thinly veiled callgirl/"massage" ads in the back, would print a full page "legit" article serving as a long, detailed advertisement for a pornography site. After all the years of saying, "We only put the ads in because we need to make $$ to keep the paper free." So, because these women don't have breast implants, the City Pages can endorse this kind of porn? IP: Logged |
Ollie Stench
Admin Posts: 2392
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted 12-05-2002 12:00 PM
quote:
Originally posted by monty carlos:
We're missing some ribald photography here Ollie...
It was there, then I remembered the stick I got from my thread about the Nuns, so I removed it. All it was was the pic from the City Pages link. IP: Logged |
monty carlos
Punk Posts: 1138
Registered: May 2002
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posted 12-05-2002 01:17 PM
Understood.IP: Logged |
Fry
Punk Posts: 516
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 12-05-2002 05:39 PM
I don't even get how sum41 is punk. I've heard it before and it really doesn't sound like any punk rock I know. And they obviously don't get in on other merits like DIY or scenesterness or anything. So confusing.IP: Logged |
vote for bernie
Punk Posts: 139
Registered: Nov 2002
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posted 12-05-2002 06:10 PM
this isn't new, there's been punk porn zines floating around for years.IP: Logged |
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